Transcript: Track 41: Friends With Benefits

Links to all fics mentioned can be found on the main episode post.

Jump to:

[intro music]

Ellenofoz: Hi everyone. Welcome to the forty-first episode of Mixtape Book Club. My name’s Ellen,

MalMuses: and my name is Mal.

Ellenofoz: In each episode we take an in-depth look at a different trope or sub-genre in the huge variety of Destiel fan fiction, and we have to just mention that today, which is the… sorry, I’ll just look it up because I don’t know what day it is on any given day…

It is the 10th of August. It is two years since we got to 100,000 Destiel fics on ao3. Can you believe that? Two years?

MalMuses: That seems like yesterday. Oh my God.

Ellenofoz: It really does. And in the meantime we’ve added…I dunno, it’s like 13,000 more, so we’re not going anywhere. And we are gonna be here for a long time reading them.

So it’s all good. We’ve got plenty of material, but in this particular episode, we are gonna look at fics where Dean and Cas are friends with benefits

MalMuses: and to discuss her fic, Vibrato, we would like to welcome author tiamatv, also known as Tia. Hello.

tiamatv: Hello.

Ellenofoz: Yay. Welcome.

tiamatv: Thank you.

MalMuses: It’s a very exciting episode for me ’cause I have wanted to get Tia on the podcast for a long time.

Ellenofoz: Yay. We love your fics!

tiamatv: Oh my goodness.

MalMuses: No pressure. (laughs)

Ellenofoz: All right, so the other fics we’re gonna talk about today as well are Words with Friends by an anonymous author, Tricks of the Trade by Trenchcoat_Impala, and The Trouble with Blue Eyes by FriendofCarlotta.

MalMuses: [00:02:00] And links to all of the fics we’ll be talking about today will be in the episode post on, and included in our bulging collection on ao3, which after a couple years doing this podcast, is now reaching a ridiculous size, but is full of some really, really wonderful fics.

So all of these will be included in there.

Ellenofoz: I guess we have to say at this point that at the moment, for a few weeks now, and… well, it’s been a couple of months now… the Writer’s Guild strike is still ongoing and also the actors and screenwriters have joined in. So we just wanted to say, because we are talking about fan creations and obviously none of us are, are members of the Guild.

Speaking for myself anyway, I dunno about you guys, but you’re doing any secret writing for a TV show?

MalMuses: (laughs) Secret celebrities, here. We’re all actors.

Ellenofoz: No. We are not involved in it, but we are in full support of the, of the strike and their fight for better pay and better controls on AI generated content.

And there are plenty of ways that listeners, you can support the strikers. There’s a, there’s a Mashable post that I’ll link in the show notes that contains links to all of the funds and the different ways that people can support them. And I think part of the way that we can also support them is by watching the shows on streaming, making sure that they’re, they’re still getting watched, even though new content isn’t being created at the moment for a lot of shows.

MalMuses: really important for fans to engage with the shows, whereas they currently can’t. Even though when it comes to Supernatural, we don’t have a currently airing show, pretty sure those actors will be still making a substantial amount we hope of their income off 15 years worth of television for a long time to come. [00:04:00] So but there’s definitely, definitely some residuals involved there and, and streaming definitely helps them out with that.

Ellenofoz: Speaking of actors, excellent segue opportunity here. I’m super duper excited about this, but I’m about to get on a plane in a few days and go over the big ocean.

And we, Mal and I are going to be at the Charlotte Con next weekend! Ahh!

tiamatv: Oh, that’s amazing.

Ellenofoz: Yes! I’m so excited we finally get to meet each other in person for the first time.

MalMuses: Yes. Oh, it’s unbelievable that I have known Ellen as long as I have, and yet sometimes I kind of get to the point where I almost forget that I haven’t seen your face yet. I mean, I’ve seen it, just not physically in front of me. Like I almost forget that that hasn’t happened yet because I’ve known you so long now.

Ellenofoz: I know. Oh, well I’ve like meeting internet friends is always the most wonderful experience. So I’m actually really looking forward to this. And the last time I tried to fly over there to do this sort of thing it got canceled because of Covid.

So I’m really hoping this time everything will be fine and yeah, I should probably start packing at some point, but you know, whatever. But anyway, if you, if, if, if you are, if listeners, if you are gonna be in Charlotte next weekend you know, we’ll be walking around with I, I’ve got like a Mixtape Book Club logo tote bag thing that I’ll have my stuff in and come and say hi. I’ll have stickers to give out…

MalMuses: I’ve got a logo bag as well. We, yeah, we’ll have stickers. I will probably be wearing my like, Mixtape backpack most of the weekend, so. Yeah. And if, and if you are unsure in any way, then please do have a look on social media because my face is on there.

So if you are looking and like, is this the right person? You, you can always just compare. Compare my Twitter. [00:06:00] There will be pictures there of me, so yes, please do come and say hi. We love meeting people.

Ellenofoz: so yes, and I’m like an extremely awkward bean in real life, so, you know. Very exciting.

MalMuses: We will be a good combination. ’cause the last convention I went to, it was absolutely wonderful. But I was in Atlanta and so many people all weekend kept coming up to me and it was so lovely.

But I was just dying internally inside my, my friend Jules was laughing at me all weekend because I, I just, I don’t… I’m a very awkward person sometimes. I don’t know how to, like, I don’t know how to make friends, so I was just like, oh gosh.

Ellenofoz: Well we can, we can all be awkward together and it’s gonna be great.

MalMuses: Yeah. It will be awesome to see people. So please do approach us if you are there.

Ellenofoz: Yeah. And we might even try and record some things together and with people there as well, so. Yeah. Keep an eye on the socials anyway and we’ll see how we’re going with that.

I guess we should talk about some fics then.

tiamatv: Yeah. Some friends with benefits. Yay.

Ellenofoz: I guess we can, we, we’ve got quite a few themes that come out in this kind of thing, in this in the fact that people have friends who they, you know, have sex with, basically. That’s what friends with benefits is, right? And don’t have an actual romantic relationship with. From my point of view, the main thing that I’ve noticed in all of these is that it’s communication, right?

Like they’re in this relationship, but neither of them are willing to admit that. And I know that with that… there are plenty of people in real, in the real world who have these kind of arrangements and it’s fine. But we know that with Dean and Cas, that they, they do in fact love each other and it will in almost all cases be a happy ending at the end. So it just comes down to communication. Do you, do you agree? Is that right?

MalMuses: [00:08:00] Yes. It’s really an extension of the miscommunication trope when it comes to these two because they communicate so badly, it’s canon. So we can just, we can roll with that and I don’t know why, but in my head, this is one of those kind of tropes where if it had been on HBO, I could totally see those two idiots doing this.

tiamatv: I like you like to think of the friends with benefits trope as being an extension of the idiots still offers tropes, to be perfectly honest, yes. ’cause I feel like in pretty much every variant of friends with benefits, like it’s one of those things where they’re in this friends with benefits relationship.

The POV character is very clearly pining over the other one. But it seems like everyone else can see that it’s mutual except for the people involved. (laughing)

MalMuses: Yes, definitely. And we’ve got some really good examples of that in the fics that we read as well. Where some of them, where the friends are quite vocal about what they are seeing that these guys are not seeing.

Ellenofoz: Yes. It’s usually Charlie. Right.

MalMuses: I, I feel like Charlie’s a really good fit for it because she is that person who will say what she sees and she’s not afraid of Dean. Whereas some people, I wouldn’t say afraid in, in a negative way, but some people wouldn’t want to push his buttons and get involved with that.

Whereas I feel like Charlie just has no boundaries when it comes to that.

Ellenofoz: Yes. Gay best friend.

MalMuses: Yep. Mm-hmm. Alright, which one should we begin with? Should we, should we pick on Tia first or would you prefer to go last? It’s up to you.

tiamatv: I, I guess I’ll go first.

Vibrato [00:09:44]

MalMuses: Alright. Would you like to read the summary of your fic for us?

tiamatv: Oh, sure. So my fic is Vibrato and the summary goes like this.

The fact is, their meet-cute’s right out of a fucking storybook. Tale as old as time, or some shit.

Except Dean doesn’t get a hard-on for libraries or randomly burst into song. And Cas? Cas is way too nerdy and harmless for anyone to call him a beast.

Even if he does drink human blood.

(In which Castiel is a hereditary vampire, Dean just wants to introduce him to movies and rock music, and their friends-with-benefits situation is either the worst idea they’ve ever had… or the best.)

MalMuses: I think I probably need to come clean up front and say that this is one of my favorite fics, not even just of Tia’s or of this particular trope, but just overall in general.

And I think I have embarrassed myself fangirling in the comments of this fic more than once. So let’s just get that out there right now so I don’t have to pretend that I’ve not read this like maybe 30 times. (laughing)

tiamatv: Oh my goodness gracious.

MalMuses: So for me, I’m just really excited to see what Ellen thought of it and hear more about kind of the behind the scenes of it and, and everyone else’s thoughts on it, because I already know I love it.

Ellenofoz: Oh, well, I also loved it. We should probably mention that this was published for the Dean Cas Switch bang in 2022.

And it, it is explicit and 70,000 words long. When they first meet, Dean insists that he’s not gay and he’s, he freaks out at first, right? Like he knows something is going on here. He knows he’s attracted to this guy, but he, he doesn’t, he can’t handle it and he nopes out. And that’s even before we get into the whole vampire thing in this, it’s just, I’d actually started reading this and then forgotten that there was vampires involved briefly until I got to the end of the first chapter and then went, “oh, that’s right.”

But I do, I do love that vampire aspect is just, it’s, it’s different to other like vampire type fics that I’ve read. It’s a really interesting way of looking at it. Is that, is that something that you had sort of read about before somewhere? Or did you come up with a lot of this vampire law, the hereditary thing?

tiamatv: So the, the reason this fic happened is because I’m probably the one of the few souls on this earth who finds the whole vampire lore sexy blood sucker thing entirely unsexy.

I find it really awful. Yeah. I find the idea of someone wanting to drink blood, the whole like, “Give me your neck,” et cetera. I, it just doesn’t do it for me. So I thought that the idea and a lot of the a lot of the very familiar tropes and the very familiar beats of, of vampire stories were not things that I found appealing.

So I decided to make Cas the kind of vampire I could see existing in the real world. And I’m very pleased actually, that you that you forgot in the first chapter that he was a vampire. ’cause I think that was kind of the, I was hoping that’s, that’s what people would do, that it would be a surprise of, oh yes, that’s right. This is actually a vampire story.

Ellenofoz: That’s exactly what happened.

tiamatv: So a lot of the hematophagy as, as we call it for Cas, is just me being a really weird biology nerd and thinking about how this might actually work. From a sort of Supernatural biology standpoint, rather than from a mysterious stranger sneaking in through bedroom windows standpoint.

MalMuses: I think that’s what makes it one of my kind of favorite vampire fics, honestly, because it, it’s one of those things where like, yes, we’re a hundred percent aware that vampires aren’t real whatsoever, but if you can give me enough, enough science in there that we’re, we’re talking about an if not a fantasy, like just give me just a little bit, like make it sci-fi not fantasy.

You know, like to me, if you can give me just enough, I’m sitting there thinking, huh, okay, yeah, I can buy that for this, for this world. I can buy that. Not just, you know, swooping capes and turning into bats and all that kind of stuff, which is completely fine and fun in its own right, but it’s in that way entirely a fantasy story for me at that point, which I enjoy as well.

But this one has, so much more, I won’t quite say realism, but it, it’s getting close, it’s getting close to it so that you can just read like these two very human-like characters and then go, oh yeah, the blood thing. So yeah, really enjoyed it because of that aspect. It made it very different to a lot of other vampire stories.

[00:15:00] So, and actually this is one of the few stories that has, Hmm, it kind of a spoiler, I guess. So maybe if you don’t want spoilers for this one, do like a 15 second skip ahead. This is one of the few fics that has, I will say, an element of almost a soulmate kind of thing, though it’s not really, it’s not like a, you know, there’s no impression that this is like a predestined kind of soulmate sort of thing, but there is a kind of like more of a, a kind of, Being bound specifically to one person, in no way predestined.

But once you’ve got that one person, that’s your person. Is there a word for that? Someone educate me.

tiamatv: I don’t know that there is,

Ellenofoz: Don’t you refer to it as mate? Like he just becomes his mate?

MalMuses: Yeah. Yes, but mate just makes it sound very like animalistic to me. Which I guess in a way it is, but like he does.

But like kind of a, a not predestined soulmates sort of thing. And every now and again, sometimes I run across like a soulmate kind of thick, which I’ll really enjoy the storytelling and I’ll really enjoy parts of it. But there’s something sometimes about the soulmate trope that kind of icks me out a little bit.

I’m not sure what it is. Maybe it’s just me being a very, like, loose, free, free will kind of person that I…

Ellenofoz: Yeah, it’s, it’s the free will that it’s the predestined part

MalMuses: Yeah. And there are a lot of so fics out there that do it really well and are very, very enjoyable. But every now and again I come across something, I’m like, oh, I don’t like that.

It feels like they’re just being forced and it doesn’t, doesn’t work for me. Yeah, and this completely avoids that. ’cause it takes away all of the like, predestined parts and Cas’s reaction to it. And his just, just the way he’s so very like, resigned about it. It’s so Cas like, it’s so very Cas.

tiamatv: he’s such an idiot.

I love the dude, but I’m like really? Like, while I was writing it, I was going, really, Cas, really this is what we’re gonna do. So spoiler alert, I didn’t actually mean for this to take the story, to take a hard left into that sort of angsty mate, you know, close relationship. I actually had a very cute little like reunion scene 10 minutes after Dean walked out of the door.

And then I actually got to the writing of it. And that was not what happened. That was not what happened. And I was like, oh no. Cas wants to be dramatic about it. All right, very well.

Ellenofoz: These characters are so annoying when they just go off and do their own thing, but it turns out so well.

tiamatv: go off and, and break up with this dude that they’re at least theoretically friends with benefits with, except they’re the only one they’re sleeping with and neither of them wants to see anyone else and they’re spending, you know?

And I think that’s, I think that’s the case with most friends with benefits. They end up much more intertwined than I think they mean to be.

MalMuses: Yeah, Cas really crosses the line from like idiot to like gothic tragedy with this.

tiamatv: (laughing) no, that’s such a good way to put it.

MalMuses: He’s just like no, I guess there’s no way this can be…I’ll take myself off to my room

Ellenofoz: and I guess I’ll just die, then. I’ll just, may as well die.

MalMuses: I’ll just die then.

tiamatv: (laughing) Oh God. That’s exactly what he does.

Ellenofoz: it’s definitely the miscommunication thing though, because like Dean is having all these like realizations of how much he’s enjoying this and how much he loves, you know, sleeping in Cas’s arms and you know, all of the like providing food for Cas. But he, he never, he never tells him, he never says anything to him about it. And Yeah. You just wanna beat their heads together.

MalMuses: Yeah. Well they have what’s I, I guess a reasonable, I can forgive them for the miscommunication, like right up front, because Cas obviously has his reasons for not being upfront with Dean and having him kind of hang around the first time that they do this.

Like he has his reasons at the time, ’cause Dean at that point is not aware of the whole vampire thing. And definitely would’ve caused issues. And you know, Dean probably has his reasons too. His probably more along the lines of internalized homophobia and less blood. But they have their reasons.

But then it’s just like their heads get stuck in that space. And even though their relationship clearly changes quite a lot over the next like couple years, they just never update. They never update their thoughts on that. Yeah.

Ellenofoz: And they make a lot of assumptions about the other.

MalMuses: They do, they do. But this is why we love them ’cause they’re idiots.

tiamatv: They really are. Somehow, somehow they still manage to be lovable while being utter idiots and not knowing how to communicate with each other. Or at least I hope so.

MalMuses: [00:20:00] A key part of a friends with benefits fic for me is like, there has to be some point where I just want to grab the two of them and like bonk their heads together a little bit.

Like if they don’t reach that point, I feel like there’s a missed opportunity. And there, there were definitely several points of mouth shouting and wanting to head bonk in this fic.

tiamatv: I do, I do feel rather bad about the people in the club who had to watch this mating dance for years though. Because frankly, I mean, right. That, that, that must’ve been hard.

MalMuses: I’m surprised that certain of the characters, particularly like Gabriel, kept his mouth shut as long as he did. But I, I choose to interpret that as Gabriel’s own personal brand of chaos and just wanting to see where this went and then getting very angry when it ends up going to a bad place.

tiamatv: Yeah. I, I don’t think Dean and Cas are the only idiots in this story, let’s be honest.

MalMuses: No, no. Gabriel’s not the only fantastic side character that you have in this fic ’cause you also have a Meg that I just adore in this fic as well. In the way that she just straight up threatens Dean.

Like she stabs the wall with a knife next to him. As far as I remember. Like, she is, she does. Yes, she is everything. And I love her. And I, I would be honored if she would almost stab me too. Please.

tiamatv: But she’s not allowed to have his soul. Cas’s said so.

MalMuses: such a meanie.

Ellenofoz: You got some really cute art in this story ’cause it was for a bang, by boeybite?

tiamatv: Yes. The art is by boeybite. Yes. They, they, they made these the most, I still look at the little, at their little fight scene. Because I feel like the look on Cas’s face encapsulates everything that I think about a lot of vampire lore,

This sort of confused “What are you saying?” kind of visual. It’s just, it’s so, the art was so adorable and, and they made these really cute little scene dividers of the coffin with little fangs and a little halo. So cute.

MalMuses: I do love those scene dividers, so cute!

I do think it would be remiss of me to get through talking about this fic without having to mention, this is the first and only vampire fic that I had come across, which involves purring in any form.

Ellenofoz: That was adorable!

tiamatv: (laughs)

MalMuses: it was one of those things that was unexpected, but made total sense for the way that you’d built the lore and the characters. And it just, Cas’s own reaction to it was just amazing and quite funny to me. Loved it. The fact that he just seemed so, like somewhere between humiliated and just resigned, just like, “ugh, really?”

Just love it. And I, I think I loved it because it made Cas’s entire being seem to come from so much more of a, like a biological imperative. Like it made things, I don’t know, it really like othered him in a fantastic way where it’s like, okay, yes, he looks kind of human and yes, he drinks a bit of blood, but you know what?

There’s, there’s much more to it than that. He is not a human being. Like he’s not, he’s different. And it was also just incredibly adorable.

tiamatv: Dean thought so too, and he could not deal with it.

MalMuses: He doesn’t deal with it well, that’s for sure. No, the old Winchester, but if you, if you don’t understand something or something is, is making you feel a few too many things, just make fun of it.

Ellenofoz: Yeah. But when, when the rest of the family or the, the supernatural creatures at the bar hear about it, they’re all like really horrified. Like, what, what have you done?

tiamatv: Yeah. Yeah. They, it, I feel like they’re… I hoped at least that their reaction was very similar to I, how I feel a lot of the supernatural creatures responded when they found out of Cas’s friendly, at least ostensibly relationship in canon.

The “really? really, dude?”

Ellenofoz: “really, you picked this one, this guy?”

MalMuses: I have a note specifically to mention. Now obviously I’ve read a lot of your fics, so it’s not a surprise to say that I enjoy your writing. Otherwise I wouldn’t read so many of them. [00:25:00] But this one in particular, there is a scene, which I’ll try to, I’ll try to kind of describe without any spoilers, but the scene where Dean and Cas are reunited and Cas wakes up.

That one in particular, I just have to compliment you on how like absolutely cinematic that scene is for me when I read it. Like I, it literally just plays out in my head like a movie every time. Which is fantastic and is also, I think it’s quite an achievement ’cause you’re describing something that like we have not seen, like Cas is kind of… Trying so hard at the spoilers here.

Cas’s physicality at the time is, he’s not looking quite as he usually does when we see him on screen. But I could still picture him completely at the time from the way that Dean is seeing him and the way that Dean is kind of panicking a little over what he’s seeing and else it, and I could just paint it in my head, like if I had any kind of artistic skill, I felt like I could just paint the entirety of that scene beginning to end.

And I just absolutely love that ’cause it’s just written so wonderfully. And it’s one of those things where like I know what chapter it’s in and I know exactly how far down the page I have to scroll. I told you I’d embarrass myself during this one, didn’t I? (laughter) I know exactly how far down I have to scroll to find that scene my, so that every time I wanna reread it, I can go straight to it.

tiamatv: Hey, hey you, you can’t see how red in the face I am because I’m very red in the face. Oh my goodness.

Ellenofoz: We, we aim to make people blush on this show. So yeah, it is a really is beautifully described, but also the, the entire fic is, is so well paced. Like I, I found it very difficult to put down. I read this one in just a few hours, I think. It was, it was brilliant. Thank you.

tiamatv: Oh, thank, thank, thank you guys so much. Oh my goodness.

MalMuses: I was really excited. I still remember getting the email when this fic dropped because obviously it was a bang fic. So it came like all at once, which was very exciting. Like a gifted delivery. Like, here you go.

Here’s a nice big juicy one to sink your teeth into. And it was so, so exciting. So yes, thank you very much for writing this and including like some of my favorite traits. We know I love vampire fics. I, I have talked about that on the podcast before about how I actually really love Vampire fics. And one of the reasons is just that there are so many different varieties of them.

Like yeah, it’s, it’s very easy to say, oh, a Vampire fic is this, and there’s a stereotypical vampire. But actually a lot of the vampire fics that I read, I feel like as a fandom, we kind of just don’t care about that and just wanna do our own thing.

tiamatv: Yeah.

MalMuses: And I love that. So… you never quite know what you’re getting.

tiamatv: I have to say the Destiel fandom is one of the few fandoms where I will read vampire fics because I do enjoy that everyone kind of has their own take on them. And Dean is a vampire, or Cas as a vampire. I know there’s one coming out where they’re both vampires and it’s just so enjoyable to see how people are going to take it because a lot of people do seem to like playing with something a little different than, than the classic vampire.

“Blah, blah, blah, I vant to drink your blood…” You know what I mean?

MalMuses: Yes. And I do love a creature Cas in any form. So my love of vampire Cas is kind of, stems, stems from that generally. So I was very excited to see this one. And good old mechanic dean, which I know is one that we use a lot. But I love fics where even in the brief scenes where there’s like a conversation with somebody at work or whatever I love when he comes across genuinely as a mechanic, which I will admit is easy to do with me.

’cause I know nothing about cars, so you can pull the wool over my eyes pretty easily when I’m reading a fic. But I, I feel like mechanic is one of those where if, you know, we’re not actually going to use Dean’s job at all as part of the plot, we can just be like, eh, he’s a mechanic. Whatever, we’re never gonna see it.

Doesn’t matter. But I love it where even if there’s like a conversation with somebody that he works with or he phones somebody at the shop or like Bobby or whatever, just the few lines that they get, it somehow makes it feel real to me. And I was just like, oh, good job. He actually feels like a mechanic in this fic.

So, but like I said, I am sadly easy to fool. Dean would be ashamed of how little I know about cars. I can’t even do my own oil changes or anything like that. So all of my car knowledge comes from reading Dean Winchester doing things to cars.

tiamatv: So does mine.

Ellenofoz: Yeah, pretty much.

tiamatv: I don’t know anything about cars either. Every time I have to write Dean as a mechanic, I have to do some Googling,

MalMuses: [00:30:00] No car knowledge whatsoever. Just Google. And when it comes to fanfic, I do have the operator’s manual for a 1967 Chevy Impala saved. (laughs)

Ellenofoz: Oh my gosh. Well there you go

tiamatv: oh my gosh. I love that.

Ellenofoz: That’s such a good idea though!

tiamatv: That’s a great idea.

Ellenofoz: Hot writer tip.

tiamatv: Yeah, that’s a… I wonder if anyone has one for the Continental.

MalMuses: Ooh, I bet there’s one out there.

Ellenofoz: Alright, well, before we move on, we, we can’t go on without mentioning a couple of your other fics, Tia, because we, we, we are like big fans of yours. The one I wanted to mention was the, was your Pern-inspired dragon Riding Fic, which is I think it’s called Impression. Is that right? Impressions or?

tiamatv: That’s right. It is. Yep.

Ellenofoz: Ah, I loved… like, I’m, I’m a Pern fan from like, way back. Like, I, I own the entire series. I haven’t actually reread them recently, which I’ve been meaning to do, but when I, when I first saw that you’d written a Destiel version of it I was just so over the moon because I love dragon stuff and I love dragon riding stuff. And your fic was brilliant. I loved it.

tiamatv: Oh, thank you. I, I am obsessed. I’m painfully obsessed with the dragons. I was also a, I was also a Pern girl from way, way, way back. I, I wrote middle school book reports on Pern. But that was the last time I read it. I was probably about 13 or 14 the last time I read any of them. And they’ve just stuck so vividly in my mind that I was like, you know what? I’m gonna write this thing. Oh, so good. But I’m so glad you enjoyed it.

Ellenofoz: I’m got like a dragon rider outline, tucked in the back of my bunny folder, which I made. That’s so exciting. One day, eventually get around to writing some more of, but yet it, it, it does get stuck in your, in your mind, you’re just like, oh, I wonder what those dragon rider guys are up to today.

tiamatv: Yeah, there’s just something that’s so amazing about, I mean, I didn’t use most, a lot of the per ethos just because I was like, oh no, there’s just, there’s just too much to use. But yeah, it owns a piece of my soul. So

MalMuses: yes, I do also love that fic as well. It’s one of the ones I had open in tabs to mention, so thank you. You’ve cut down on the ten minutes of talking I’m about to do.

Ellenofoz: Alright, I’ll hand over to you and you can take it away now. (laughs)

MalMuses: I think the first one I have to mention is probably, probably the first one that I probably annoyed Tia in the comments of, ’cause I’ve commented on this so many times to the point where it got embarrassing, so I stopped.

But it’s the Southside Swing series that you did and the entire series of fics of, of one shots with a kind of modern Chicago Mafia kind of thing going on. Like there, there’s actually kind of an element of like a friends with benefits thing going on early on in that as well, or kind of Dean kind of files it that way in his brain for a while.

tiamatv: Ahh.. God, that idiot. (laughs) He does. You’re right.

MalMuses: Yeah. But I absolutely love that series and again, I’ve read it so many times and I was lucky enough to read it. I think when I first read it, there were maybe two parts to it and of since then there’s been another three, four? hang on. Where, where are we at now? No, five. Now five more pieces, which, which I’ve absolutely loved.

But if anybody enjoys kind of mafia type fics with a really good Russian Cas, though, I mean, he’s not from Russia as he will tell you. But altogether there’s about 75,000 words of this universe. And it got to the point where every time I, I was rereading it and I would comment and just, you know, say that I was rereading it as you do sometimes.

And I stopped doing that because I was like, this is just getting embarrassing now. So I stopped commenting, but I did not stop rereading. So please do check out the South Side Swing series. It’s very hot, in parts, it’s very funny. And also it just, I, I have a little place in my heart for Chicago and Chicago is very, very alive in this series for me.

So I was very, very happy to recommend that one to everybody. I’m pretty sure I’ve gushed about it on the podcast before. So definitely, definitely that one.

Also for something, something completely different, Stripes and Stitches is adorable.

So this is, one of those

tiamatv: [00:35:00] Oh my goodness! The anti-soulmate soulmate fic

MalMuses: Yeah. Another not really, so soulmate-ish twist on a soulmate that made me love it kind of fic. Also involves knitting stuff. So it’s just absolutely adorable. Love this. Again, shorter pieces, but I think, I dunno how long this one is, I should have looked it up, but I think there’s probably like, yeah, 45,000 words of this as well.

So if you want to read all of the pieces of it, you can sink your teeth into a longer piece of this one. So yeah, soulmate marks, little bit magical. Absolutely love it. Cas trying to like, kind of hide at one point his marks was adorable. I’m trying, like, I can’t mention all of these, so I’m just scrolling through like, which ones could I simply not miss out on saying, oh, the, what was the title of it?

The sci-fi like racing fic? Racing Stripes.

tiamatv: Oh, Racing Stripes, yes.

Ellenofoz: Oh, yeah! I love that one too.

MalMuses: Yeah. And that one was, I think, was that it was a, a bang of some kind from last year, I think. Wasn’t it?

tiamatv: It was, it was the Sci-fi Fantasy bang.

MalMuses: Yes. ’cause I remember it has amazing art from Klayr de Gall, I think.

tiamatv: Klayr. Yes.

MalMuses: So good. Just absolutely…

tiamatv: Yes, from Klayr. Oh, phenomenal art. I was, I’ve been lucky to work with them on two consecutive bangs, it was actually two in a row. And God, their art is so beautiful. I, I told them that, you know, I, I couldn’t have imagined the ghost city of Chicago looking as good as they made it.

Oh, it is also a Chicago fic, huh?

MalMuses: Yeah. Another one of those where I just, you know, I just love Chicago, so. Alright. Oh Storm and Sentinel as well. Another one that I’ve read multiple times, and I think this is one of the ones that we maybe, did we talk about this from our podcast before?


Ellenofoz: I, yeah, I, it sounds familiar to me when I just looked at it before.

MalMuses: yes. So, definitely, this is, is a fantasy. Castiel is a storm mage They’ve, they’ve known each other since they were kids, so it’s kinda like a, what do they call those fics? I’ve forgotten the trope. Like, you know, when they know each other since they were kids and they grew up together. But again, just really amazing descriptions in this one. Like, I loved the entire universe that was created. The whole fantasy world building in this, I just absolutely loved.

So, I cannot recommend that one enough. I will, at this point I’m just gonna say go, go read everything else. Oh. Oh. The one I have just finished reading, and I haven’t yet embarrassed myself in the comments of, but it will be happening shortly. Is the Spaceship Impala series,

tiamatv: my Suptobers!

MalMuses: Yes. I was digging back through because I have a, a huge, a huge love of space gays as has been well documented on this podcast.

Like if you want me to read something, put Dean and Cas in it and set it in space and I am there like, doesn’t matter what other tags it’s got, I am there. I am reading it. But this also had a bunch of other tags that I really enjoyed. And again, loved the world building and the creation of alien Cas as the, the alien race that he is.

I loved the way that you created it without just, it’s very easy to just kind of just say, oh yeah, he’s an alien and then he’s human, you know? But no, you really put the work in with this and made him different, but still very much the Cas that we know. So absolutely loved it. So good. I’m gonna shut up now. (laughs)

tiamatv: Oh my goodness.

Ellenofoz: Well, there’ll be a link to all of those different fics on the blog post,

MalMuses: baby. Sorry, I’ve just made you out, have to link like an extra five

Ellenofoz: Looking for something great to read, Definitely going to check out Tia’s fics.

tiamatv: Oh goodness. Thank you.

MalMuses: Sorry!

Words with Friends [00:39:08]

Ellenofoz: Shall we go on to Words with Friends?

tiamatv: Yeah. Yes, please. (laughter)

Ellenofoz: Okay. We’ll give you a break. So Words With Friends is by an anonymous author. Obviously this fic has been orphaned at some point. And it was published back in 2014, so I assume that whoever wrote it decided that they no longer wanted to be associated with it, which is really sad because it’s great.

But it was, it’s 22,000 words long and is explicit. And the summary goes like this:

“Dean Winchester is as straight as an arrow. He’s a lady’s man of epic proportions: the king of the one night stand, the messiah of the friends with benefits paradigm, the emperor of perpetual bachelorhood.

Except, apparently, when it comes to his best friend, Castiel Novak.”

Wherein a longstanding acquaintanceship leads to friendship, then best friendship, then sexting, then dirty talk, then mutual masturbation, then, inevitably, fucking.

Ellenofoz: It’s a good summary of the entire fic!

tiamatv: As one does, I suppose! It really is.

Ellenofoz: This is, this is almost 22,000 words of pure porn. There’s a lot, a lot in it, and it’s a really, it’s great.

tiamatv: So I started rereading this while I was on a walk. I was reading it on my Kindle. There was no one around me as I was reading it. And about, I don’t know, 5,000 words in, I was like, “Hmm, don’t think I can read this in public, even with not another soul around me.” And I closed my Kindle.

Ellenofoz: Yes. It’s quite hot. I mean, they, it, it does have like obviously BDSM element to it as well, but they don’t sort of… they agree on a safe word, but they don’t do any of that you know listing of kinks or whatever. They just go right into it, which I think partially is responsible for the miscommunication.

Dean gets a bit overwhelmed by the whole thing. He’s really into it, but he just isn’t coping well. He’s extremely hot and he just, he just says yes to everything. He’s like, “yeah, give that a go.”

MalMuses: I just, he doesn’t even stop to think like, there’s no thought process. He’s just like, yep.

And then afterwards he’s like, “oh, that happened. Like, I did that.” And I mean, who can blame him? If Cas came at me, I, I’d be doing the same.

tiamatv: Fair. Cas could argue that Dean was the one who started it after all. Well, I dunno. The, the porn thing, I think the, the sharing porn between them was, I think Cas,

MalMuses: I think Cas, but Dean’s the one who sent the first male picture

tiamatv: Yes. Yes. And asked what Cas thought of it. Yeah,

Ellenofoz: yeah, yeah. It’s almost got like a little bit of a, a Four Letter Word (For Intercourse) vibe to it. In that part, in, in the first. You know, couple of chapters until they meet in person because they’re, they’re doing everything over the phone. And it’s got that kind of sexting phone sex kind of thing happening.

MalMuses: It gave me the vibe of a fact that I’m struggling to remember the name of, oh my goodness. It’s, it’s super well known. I feel like at least one of you will know which one I’m talking about. It’s the one with the very famous art of tattooed Cas with the tie and the popsicle. Like,

Ellenofoz: oh, One Missed Text, is that what it’s called?

tiamatv: No, it’s not. No, it’s called…

MalMuses: it’s like a wrong number. It’s…

tiamatv: Unsolicited, right? The, the series is Unsolicited.

MalMuses: Yes. There we go. Yes. But it gave me a little bit of those vibes in parts. Even though in this, they, they know who each other is, but they very much got like a kind of like, In the streets, in the sheets, like difference going on here.

Like it’s almost like two different people.

tiamatv: yes. And they’re so good at it. I mean,

MalMuses: until they’re not

tiamatv: exactly. They’re compartmentalization until they go crashing together. Like, you know, like, like going 60 down the highway is, is phenomenal.

MalMuses: And this is one of those fics where I feel sorry for their friends.

tiamatv: Oh my God.

Ellenofoz: Yeah. They do have a kind of almost public kind of elements to their, you know, doing things in their friend group while their friends are there. And you’re like, there’s no way you could get away with that in a real situation. Like, I don’t know. it’s, it’s hot. Hot as hell. But like, you’re just reading it going, “Is he really gonna like, have an orgasm while he is sitting at a table next to his friends and they’re not gonna notice anything?”

tiamatv: From Cas’s foot! From the foot? Yeah. What is happening here?

MalMuses: Oh, no. (laughs) And you do wonder, like, at least a little bit, I wonder whether maybe Sam did pick up on something, because later on when they kind of, when Sam and Dean talk a little bit about what’s going on with, with Dean and Cas, like, Sam just dumps straight in there with like “gay?” like, like, excuse me.

I was at that table. Like, you can just, I don’t know. There’s part of me that’s like, did he notice something and was just too horrified to say anything? Who knows?

tiamatv: And who can blame him really? I don’t think anyone wants to be in, I don’t think anyone wants to be anywhere near that potential train wreck, which was probably wise of them.

MalMuses: Yes. Yes. And it, it definitely is a train wreck. [00:45:00] I mean, it’s a relatively short fic. This is like 22,000 words. So the train wreck portion doesn’t last very long just by virtue of the pacing of the story. Yeah, but there’s definitely a point where the shit hits the fan and Dean has his somewhat well deserved internal panic, I guess.

’cause he’s really not been dealing with anything up until that point. Yeah, no,

tiamatv: the fact that he at that, at that spoiler, at that point he goes, “I’m not gay.” And you’re like, excuse you sir.

MalMuses: Like, you need to back up a few steps.

tiamatv: You need to perhaps remember like last night

MalMuses: Like go get some mouthwash, get the dick out of your mouth and we’ll talk about this again. (laughing)

Ah, yes. Trying to think what else we can say about this that isn’t just describing a lot of porn because

Ellenofoz: well, I was, I was gonna say that it’s older fic and it did get orphaned. So the, the tag list is fairly sparse. There’s not much on there. So while I just have it does have BDSM sort of portion it does, there is also verbal humiliation in this, like they mm-hmm.

Is calling Cas, is calling Dean kind of slut, whore kind of things

MalMuses: Yeah, definitely one to read the tags on, I think. ’cause…

tiamatv: there is some insufficient consent going on indefinitely. It’s, while there are definite BDSM elements, there’s definitely no contract of any, yeah, there’s on ’cause that would involve negotiation.

That would involve healthy communication and that’s just not what they do. So whether or not.

MalMuses: You are a contract person in BDSM or not? I will say that there is definitely some very poor BDSM etiquette shown in this. Very. Which, you know, that there is somewhat of an apology made for later, but it’s one of those things like you, I, you know, you should probably know that going into it.

And it’s definitely not like in no way does Dean seem unwilling. I would like to clarify that. But he also may not be very aware of what he’s getting into, so

tiamatv: Nope. Nope. Not a clue.

Ellenofoz: Nope. They’ve also tagged M/F in this and while Dean or Cas don’t sleep with other people but they watch some porn. I think that’s the only time that the M/F kind of comes into it.

MalMuses: Oh yeah. ’cause they do mention het sex and a threesome, but none of those actually physically involve them at all. Yeah. Good catch.

Ellenofoz: Yeah, I don’t know. I think our tagging game has improved over, over the last 10-ish years since this was written. Nine years. Oh my God.

tiamatv: Oh my God. (laughter and surprised noises)

Ellenofoz: Sorry. Sorry to scare everyone with that.

MalMuses: Yeah, I’ve, I’ve read this one before, like I’ve read this one a few times. I think I read this one like way back when I very first started reading Destiel fic, and I’ve read it a couple of times since then, but I don’t think it was until this time that I realized it was an anonymous fic or maybe it’s just that it wasn’t back when I read it and it’s been orphaned since then. But this was definitely the first time that I noticed that it was an anonymous story. So, which obviously people are welcome to do if they decide they want to do that, then, you know, we’d certainly as a fandom appreciate somebody orphaning a fic rather than deleting it.

But it’s, you know, it’s their own, their own work, so they get to do what they want with it. But I’m very glad.

tiamatv: I’m very glad they left this up. This was one of the first V that I read in the, in the Destiel fandom. And it is one of the first fic I ever bookmarked, and I was not up on my bookmarking game at the time, so I bookmarked it “Oh my gosh. So hot.” (laughs) And I haven’t read it again since that point, but on rereading it. Yep. It, it lives up to its name.

MalMuses: Yeah. I don’t know how much more we can say about this one, simply because so much of it is just porn. Very, very well written and, and creative porn. I will say it’s not just like, you know, you get all the standard stuff in here, but there’s definitely some, some things that we don’t see quite as often.

tiamatv: Their dirty talk is unbelievable. For me, I think that is the most memorable part of it. Before they’re even physically together, just the things Cas says to him… Yeah, you can, you can see why Dean jumped and kept falling for sure. Just from the, just from the get go.

MalMuses: Jumped head first into gay panic. Yes.

Ellenofoz: And he, I think also part of the reason, well, for me anyway, that I think it, it was so hot, is that because Dean doesn’t really know what he’s getting into. He’s just overwhelmed by the whole thing. And he, and everything he finds really… like, he, he’s just like, “oh my God, what’s next?” You know? [00:50:00] So his reactions made it even better for the reader.

MalMuses: Very good. Well done. Very hot. Thank you.

Tricks of the Trade [00:50:10]

All right. Shall we move into the other BDSM one? We didn’t deliberately include two BDSM ones in this but they are very different in how things are done. And I do think that BDSM fics tend to lend themselves to the friend with benefits trope. I think there’s quite a lot of crossover there probably.

I know several others just off the top of my head. And I’ve even written one myself where there is a crossover between those two tropes. So I’d say there’s probably a significant portion.

But this is called Tricks of the Trade by Trenchcoat_Impala, and it’s a longer fic. I think it’s the longest one that we did this time. So this is 90,000 words, 90 and a half thousand words. And it was written or finished back in 2022. This was not part of a bang. So it was published over about six months. And the summary is as follows:

“I need you to find me a Dom.”

Cas nearly choked on his pizza. “Excuse me?”

Dean wants to see what the world of kinky sex is like so he turns to his best friend and roommate, Castiel Novak, who just so happens to be a Dom at a local BDSM club. Cas is happy to help Dean enter this new world, but when Dean has a bad experience with the Dom he’s paired with at the club, Cas takes it upon himself to show Dean the tricks of the trade. You know, as any good friend would do.

tiamatv: (laughs)

MalMuses: Yes. Just good friends, good buddies.

Ellenofoz: Definitely what buddies do together and roommates as well, like and I dunno what Cas was thinking

tiamatv: and roommates (laughing) oh guys

Ellenofoz: oh my God, they were roommates.

MalMuses: I think my favorite in this was the very… it felt like a very in character contrast from how they got from the beginning to the end. Like Cas kind of recognizes his feelings, although he’s in somewhat of denial of them from quite early on and is just kind of putting up with it like, “well, Yep. All right.”

Whereas Dean just suddenly is just like, “oh, shit.” Like much later on. That they’ve clearly both been gone on each other since the beginning, but just the way it takes Dean so long and then he’s just suddenly like, “oh, fuck.”

I loved it. ’cause yes, we’ve got two kind of extreme different examples of how that can go in this with Cas knowing from early on and just sort of, I know he is like, oh, he knows, he knows that his heart’s doing a thing, but he’s just ignoring it, you know, healthily. Yeah.

tiamatv: Until he doesn’t. Until he doesn’t ignore it. Good for him.

MalMuses: Until he doesn’t. Yeah. Whereas Dean is just bopping along doing just fine, and then suddenly “Oh no.”

tiamatv: It’s so true to form though. It’s it’s horrible how true that is.

MalMuses: Yes. It, it just, it feels very in character for them, for me. I’ll say this thick as well, does have very briefly, some Cas and Meg and some other bits, but just in the first chapter when they’re kind of setting up this whole premise.

And after that, they do not, though it does have some descriptions of sex between other characters, unnamed characters. So if that’s something that will bother somebody… Don’t even know what you’d really tag that, that would be a complicated tag, but it’s, it’s there, but they do have it. Here we go.

“Sex between characters that are not Dean and Cas.” There we go.

Ellenofoz: Yeah, that describes it. This has got a much more standard kind of healthy BDSM, you know, etiquette contracts and you know, the, the traffic light system and all that things, things that you find in other BDSM fics.

MalMuses: you mean? He doesn’t just string him up from a ceiling and not mention it.

Ellenofoz: Okay. “You’re stuck there until I let you down, bitch.”

MalMuses: Ah, yes. Completely different approach to BDSM in this fic, you are correct. Yes.

Ellenofoz: And they do, there is public… they go to a club and have, you know, sex in front of other people as well. There’s all sorts of interesting things in this one.

MalMuses: Yes. All sorts.

Ellenofoz: I think that’s all covered in the tags though. There’s a, there’s quite an extensive tag list in this one. It’s a bit, a bit of a contrast to the older one where you know, we do now tag for all these different things that, that weren’t necessarily tagged before.

MalMuses: And I do love that we tag for these things just ’cause, you know, a lot of the time I think people frame tags as warnings.

Whereas for me, it’s like, you’re enticing me in with these. [00:55:00] Like I love having these tags. It’s, it’s a way for me to find more of the thing. So it’s definitely a way to draw people to fics. It’s not only a thing to… ’cause I, I know, especially when I was first writing in the fandom, that did seem to be this concept of like, oh, don’t tag that, you’ll put people off.

And I’m just like, but no, it’s the other way round. Like, there are people who will enjoy that thing. So you need to tag it to not only warn off the people who will be upset by that thing, but also to draw in the people who will enjoy it.

Ellenofoz: Yeah. It was also like, for spoiler reasons, like I’ve, I’ve been reluctant to tag things in the past just because I didn’t wanna spoil it.

But I think now you just have to include it. And I mean, I’ve gone into fics before and not read, like often, often go into fics without reading the tags. Which is kind of living dangerously, but eh.

MalMuses: there’s only one bit I think, where I deliberately did not put something in the tags because tagging it would’ve been a massive plot spoiler.

So instead I simply… that I did put something in the author’s note where people could go and check out something somewhere else if they wanted the spoiler. Like they could, you know, had to make sure there was a way there that people could make sure there was nothing that was personally triggering for them or whatever.

Yeah, but that wasn’t really like a sex thing or anything like that. It was a very large plot piece. So sometimes, sometimes it’s difficult to make that call. But yeah, always tagging or somehow letting the readers know I think is much more appreciated now than it used to be. Like it’s just something that way back when, I don’t think it’s that anybody didn’t want to warn other people. It just wasn’t something that people thought about. I think.

tiamatv: this story does a really nice job too, of the beginning note. It’s not just the tags, but I believe the be note of every chapter. If there’s anything that they thought that readers might find upsetting, they put it in the beginning, author’s notes for each chapter as well, which I thought was very, very considerate.

MalMuses: Yeah. I enjoy reading fics sometimes where you can see that they’ve been posted like weekly or monthly or just, you know, however often because you do get those little like author’s notes bits and I always read them and it’s sometimes interesting ’cause especially over the last few years, you can kind of tell like what was going on in the fandom that sometimes from what was going on in the author’s note,

tiamatv: I enjoy that part of, for me, part of the fun of this particular fig was.

You know, their, their communication about sex and about their BDSM relationship and like what they’re gonna do to each other and what they’re gonna do for each other, their communication about that is so good. And yet their communication about their feelings is so bad. It’s, it’s kind of amazing because they’re really good at talking to each other.

They’re really good at like working out what they’re comfortable with, what they’re uncomfortable with. It’s like a really healthy BDSM relationship. And yet, and yet…

Ellenofoz: yeah, they’ve just shoved all their real feelings too far down.

MalMuses: I was saying, I think that Dean shoved his so far down that he wasn’t even aware of them until they reared up and bit him in the face.

And Cas hasn’t so much like shoved his down. It’s just like pushed them to the side a little bit and he’s just like suspiciously side eyeing them, just like, damn it,

Ellenofoz: “I thought I was gonna be all right with this, but totally I’m not.”

MalMuses: “Totally not okay with it. But I guess I’m just gonna continue anyway.”

Ellenofoz: Yeah, yeah. And not say anything.

MalMuses: And I love how Cas can justify to himself in the beginning of this fic, that like, he’s doing this, you know, as, as like a good deed to like, help Dean out and make sure that like Dean doesn’t have any more negative experiences and that, you know, he’s, he’s being a really good friend.

tiamatv: Just a good buddy. Just the best of buddies.

Ellenofoz: Yeah. And I think, is this the one where they, where I know Dean justifies it in a lot of fics by saying that he doesn’t want to ruin their friendship by trying it on with Cas romantically. But yeah, I think, I’m pretty sure this is one where he’s like, “no, if I, we, we are roommates and everything, like if I say anything about this, it’s gonna mess everything up.”

And yeah, he says that in a lot of fics.

tiamatv: I’m pretty sure he says that in this one too. Yeah. Yeah.

MalMuses: This is a fic where we get a little bit of a Dean’s, Dean’s panty kink as well, that little nod to, to canon or you know, how we interpret canon and run with it because it’s so much fun. But there’s a little nod in it in this and it really did amuse me that one of the things early on where they kind of have a discussion about, you know, the kinds of things that they’re each into and they have this really healthy like, kind of discussion before they start doing any of this.

And for some reason the panties are the one thing that Dean is like unsure about that. Like he isn’t sure if he should say, or that somebody is gonna be on board with. [1:00:00] And yet there’s all these other things which arguably are much more intense than, you know, he likes a bit of silk on his tush. And he’s quite happy to just be like, yeah, let’s try that. Let’s try that, let’s try that. But no, not the panties. I can’t confess.

tiamatv: And I love how Cas is like, what in the world are you talking about? Doms love to put their subs in panties because right?

MalMuses: This is one of the fics that I really enjoyed the side characters in so much. Particularly Charlie, in that she’s just desperately pointing out the obvious for like the entire story. And just constantly just being like, “you guys are together,” and just overriding them even though they’re like, no, we’re not.

And she’s just like, yeah, yeah. Sure. Yeah.

Ellenofoz: Everyone knows they’re together except them for this entire thing.

MalMuses: And, and Charlie does not dial back on it at all. She’s just like, no.

tiamatv: They don’t know that they’re sleeping around the time you’re, you’re getting, you’re getting jealous and saying He’s mine and such like that.

You gotta kind of admit you’re together, but No. Nope, nope.

Ellenofoz: The denial is strong. I don’t know what else to say about this because it’s just a whole lot of great BDSM scenes, one after the other really, isn’t it?

MalMuses: Yes. I think people who are fans of a possessive Cas will really enjoy this though it is done in a very healthy way.

But yeah, he’s definitely, he’s definitely a little, a little greedy in this one. People can look, but they cannot touch. And yeah, he’s, he is very much a caretaker. He loves his aftercare in this one, and he definitely kind of pushes it a bit where he’s maybe doing a little more that’s necessary just because he likes it and he’s kind of fooling himself into having a kind of boyfriend experience, which is kind of adorable, honestly.

And it’s definitely, it’s definitely good from Dean’s point of view as being somebody who’s kind of newer in the kind of lifestyle, doesn’t necessarily, you know, know all the things to watch out for, stuff like that. Like it’s a very good thing that Cas is doing. But he’s definitely, I think, at least in part, has slightly selfish motives there.

tiamatv: And he acknowledges that to himself eventually.

MalMuses: Eventually, yes. Eventually.

tiamatv: Oh, there is one. This is, this is, sorry, this is a spoiler, but I do appreciate that this is one of the few fics where a dom safe words out of a situation. And that’s about all I’m gonna say about that. But I appreciate that there’s that acknowledgement that that can happen too, and that that’s an okay thing.

And even though that sort of happens at a very emotional moment for them, it ends up being like a real emotional turnaround for them. And I really like that.

MalMuses: Yes. Something that would be good to see more of I think honestly, like, let’s, let’s normalize that because I. Overall I think this fic is quite a positive depiction of the BDSM community.

I don’t think that fic exists or should have to educate anybody in anything. But it is nice to see fics that do it well anyway. Because as much as we like sit here and be like, well, I’m not educating everybody, but people are going to read this stuff and hopefully just use that as a starting point and will go and research further and learn real things.

But you just never know. You never know who’s reading. You never know what stage they are at in their own journey in life. So I do like it when you just have, you know, very positive, healthy representations of these things. I think it’s, it’s good to have that out there. ‘Cause there’s, there’s a lot of stuff out there.

Not even just in like the Destiel fandom, but just in general. There’s a lot of stuff out there that’s very unhealthy, unrealistic depictions of all of this kind of stuff. So I like that fanfic can kind of stand as a, as an island and be like, no, we’ll show you how to do things right.

The Trouble With Blue Eyes [1:04:19]

Ellenofoz: Alright, shall we go on?

MalMuses: I think so.

tiamatv: So this is the Trouble with Blue Eyes by FriendofCarlotta. It was written for the 2023 Dean Cash Reverse Bang with Art by Aggiedoll. And the summary goes like this:

For years now, Dean Winchester has had a mutually beneficial arrangement with Castiel Novak, a fellow private eye. It’s good, it’s easy, and there’s nothing wrong with it.

Well, except for one thing: Dean’s caught himself a bad case of feelings, and Cas doesn’t feel the same way.

MalMuses: Mm, I could smell the miscommunication. (laughs)

Ellenofoz: I love this. It’s like a, ’cause it’s only 15,000 words. [1:05:00] It’s like a nice snapshot easy read. Just the feeling of it is like that noir kind of gritty detective kind of thing. It’s great. Different to, yeah, what we usually have

MalMuses: Yeah. I love like wild stuff like this and I just, I feel like we don’t have a lot of it.

Or at least, you know, if this, if people have recommendations for fics with that kind of setting or feeling, please let me know ’cause I would love to read more stuff like this set in this kind of way. And I really haven’t seen a lot of it

Ellenofoz: the, the setting kind of that, I don’t know, Sin City kind of vibe.

Like they, it means that both of them are very aloof and don’t actually, like, they don’t say much to each other, but they hit it off and go and, and start seeing each other regularly even though they don’t have any kind of relationship, but it’s, yeah, it kind of gives it that I don’t know, it almost feels kind of sparse.

Like, you know, they’re, they don’t say much, but they have a really good relation… Well, they have good sex anyway. They don’t have a good relationship at all.

MalMuses: Yeah. I feel like it’s kinda one of those things where like, they probably, they know a lot more about each other than they think they do. Like, they kind of think that they’re keeping this, this boundary and this separation and they’ve got this friends with benefits thing, but they actually just, you know, start internalizing all these little, little things that they observe about the other one and actually end up getting to know them really well, despite what they might think.

Yeah. And I kind of love that. I, I really do.

Ellenofoz: I mean, it goes on for a couple of years right before they, before the ending kind of drama happens.

tiamatv: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So, yeah. I love the fact that it’s told in these, it’s told basically the way they see each other in these snapshots, in these like, absolutely beautiful visuals.

Of, you know, how, how Dean sees Cas in, in the shadows and in the lights, how Cas is studying Dean’s fingers as he’s rolling a cigarette, and the way the tip of the cigarette lights up when Cas lights it for him. It’s just the, I don’t, I mean, I’ve never actually seen a noir style movie, but I could just watch this whole thing playing out in black and white as I was, as I was watching.

MalMuses: Yeah. It’s very atmospheric. Like the whole fic felt like smoky and like, like it really had this kind of like atmosphere to it, which is just wonderfully done. One of my favorite things about this fic and I, I think a, a really big key here is this “idiots in love” tag again. Yes. Is that even though they have this, like keeping it a distance, we’re both serious PIs, we’ve got things to do, we’re ships in the night, we will like meet here and there.

But they also have this truly adorable little like love language pen pal messaging system going on with handkerchiefs.

Ellenofoz: Oh yeah.

tiamatv: The pocket squares. The pocket squares are my absolute favorite thing about this. I think I’ve fangirled at her a couple of times about the pocket squares

MalMuses: just adorable. Like, I absolutely loved it. I was like, oh, you two are so soft. Like you’re really just showing your soft underbellies there. Yeah.

tiamatv: Dean buys them in different colors

Ellenofoz: and whoever their assistant is, describes them as love notes. And it’s like,

MalMuses: yes, you are correct. That is what they are

tiamatv: Charlie.

Ellenofoz: Yeah, it was Charlie. Getting mixed up between fics again. Yes, definitely. Charlie, she knows what’s up.

tiamatv: She definitely knows what’s up. Yep. And the fact that she, she’s definitely opening all his mail and Dean knows, and he is like, well, all right.

MalMuses: She ships it for sure. So, but yeah, this is one of those fics where she does really good job of giving you a sense of, okay, we are, we are tracking their relationship through these, these moments that we see, these, these little snapshots in time.

So that we can kind of see how it, how it evolved over time, how they met, how they got where they are now. And then, you know, the, the crux of the fic really is kind of what’s, what’s happening in, in the present, this, this potential heartbreak that they’re going through. Yeah. But there’s such a sense of a much wider world, like much just beyond reach.

Like you can very easily imagine like all these cases that they’ve done that kind of helping each other or, or leaving, leaving little clues to help each other out maybe, or things like that. Just, you just get this sense of so much more, even though this is like a under 15,000 words, obviously there’s no space for all that kind of plot stuff in here, but you still get this fantastic sense of it ’cause the, the fic is built so well.

It’s, it’s just wonderful. I love it. [1:10:00] It feels like even though it’s 14,900 words. Yeah. But once you’ve sunk into it, I still have that same feeling as if I had just read like a hundred thousand words of it. Or I can just be completely sunk into this amazing world that’s been created.

But at the same time, I read it and I was like, I feel like that was only 10 minutes. I need more!

Ellenofoz: beautiful writing. And also the, the artwork adds to it as well because it’s all black and white you know, little vignettes. And some of them are gifs, so they, they move. That makes it extra special.

MalMuses: Aggiedoll does such beautiful art.

I was lucky enough to some art with them one time and Oh, just fantastic. Just beautiful. So we sure do have some fantastically talented act… “Actors” I was about to say

tiamatv: we do that. We do have those too!

MalMuses: Yes, that too, but artists in this fandom. Yeah, I was, I was quickly trying to count how many pieces, but all I will say is there is a lot of art in the fic and it is all beautiful

tiamatv: in every chapter.

MalMuses: That’s so much art. Yeah.

Ellenofoz: That’s the dream for, for bangs, unfortunately. I never have enough of my f ready for an artist to actually have time to make a whole bunch of artwork for when involved in a bang. It’s that deadline or like last minute deadline writing that gets you every time.

tiamatv: Oh, same, big same.

Ellenofoz: Yeah, but this was a reverse bang. So yeah, it started with the artwork and yeah, they must have expanded it.

MalMuses: Reverse bangs are so fun. Like I, I, there’s just something about seeing a piece of art and then just having this entire, I don’t know if this happens to other people the same way as it does to me, but like, I will see the art and then it’s just like the entire story just kind of plops into my head sometimes.

There’s something about art that, that does that. So I absolutely love reverse bangs.

tiamatv: Oh, it’s my, the, the Dean Cas reverse bang is probably, I mean, I love bangs, but it is my favorite bang in the, in the fandom. And just looking at that gallery before claims is such a rush of inspiration. It’s amazing.

MalMuses: Yes, I haven’t done one for a couple of years because I’ve just been busy with real life stuff and I haven’t been able to do as much as I would like for the last couple years. But I’m already waiting. Now I’m at the point where I’m like, no. This year one of the reverse bangs, whether it’s the Dean Cas reverse bang or the SPN reverse bang, like one of the, one of them, one of them I’m going to, I’m gonna haunt it this year and I’ll be right there.

I’m determined to get something,

tiamatv: so. Oh, that’s so exciting.

Ellenofoz: I’ve never managed to claim anything in one of those before. I’ve tried a couple of times, but the claims are normally on in the middle of the night for me, and I have to rely on other people to claim for me, and it hasn’t worked out yet, but

tiamatv: it is frankly a little madness that that particular, but I, I’m not sure how artists do this all the time, but it’s so stressful when it’s, when it’s actual claims moment.

So exciting, but very stressful.

MalMuses: Exciting and stressful. Yes. The very first reverse bang that I did, I actually missed the actual claims for it, I think. And they only had a bunch of pinch hits left. ’cause it had been, as far as I remember, it was one of the spn reverse bangs. And they had a huge, huge, huge amount of art.

And actually a bunch of different authors got to pick like multiple pieces. My problem is I love art so much, I feel bad if, if there are any left. And I just wanna like scoop them up and love them and make sure that the artist knows how wonderful they are. So I ended up actually doing four pieces for that bang.

tiamatv: Oh my goodness. So, no,

MalMuses: I was like, I can’t do it. No art left behind.

Ellenofoz: I mean, I’m only gonna write you a hundred words of story for each one, but it’s all going in.

MalMuses: I, I, the sad part is I think several of those fics were at least 40,000 words.

tiamatv: Oh, no. (laughs)

MalMuses: Yeah, but I am really looking forward to this year ’cause I have promised myself so I just really hope that I can get in there fast enough to get something.

So I suppose technically it’ll be next year now by the time the fics post, but yes.

Ellenofoz: Do we know when, if it, is it coming up this..? like do we know when it is?

MalMuses: I think the reverse banks post in April, so they probably going out on a limb to say they probably start much earlier in the year. Like the artists probably start like before Christmas or something, but I think the claims are like February.

tiamatv: February, yeah. Ish. I think so, yeah.

Ellenofoz: Okay. There was, I also saw somewhere, I am trying to remember where that, there was talk of like a, a reverse bang for fantasy art.

tiamatv: There is, I believe there’s a fantasy reverse bang and there’s a crossover reverse bang that are coming up this year.

Ellenofoz: Yeah, Keep your eyes peeled for those!

MalMuses: we’re so blessed with bangs in this fandom.

Ellenofoz: Because I would love to do a fantasy bang. Yes. Reverse bang.

tiamatv: I believe signups are already open for that one. Oh really? Oh God.

Ellenofoz: Okay. I’m obviously not following whoever I need to. Thank you. Yes. And I’ll post it in the, in the post in, you know, for this episode too, in case anyone’s interested.

That sounds like a load of fun. Ooh. Alright. Anything else about FriendofCarlotta’s fic before we go on?

MalMuses: it’s fantastic and I love it!

tiamatv: It, it is one of my, it is one of my favorites for exactly the reasons that you said that. It’s, it seems like a much bigger story than it is. And you just get the sense of the fact that you get the sense of time passing between them and just how, how intimate they really are.

But it’s all in these tiny little, like, beautifully written snapshots and it’s, it’s. It’s writing I’m jealous of, to be frank. It’s so beautiful.

MalMuses: Yes. It’s beautiful writing. Yes, it is. Incredibly well done. Again, an author that we have featured before and that, that, that we love dearly. So not at all surprised that this fic pulled me in the way it did.

’cause this is one that I read specifically for this podcast episode. It had been on my mark for later and I was like, yes, I need a reason. I need a reason to be able to dig into this right now. And this was the perfect one for this episode. But yeah, was not surprised at all by how much I loved this, so, yep.

Other recommendations

MalMuses: Alright. Do we have other recommendations in this, in this genre?

Ellenofoz: Yes, there are a few.

MalMuses: Excellent.

Ellenofoz: Do you wanna start or,

MalMuses: I can do, what should I start with? I. Ooh, yay. Well, I think I need to start with as, as this, as the resident tentacle enthusiast. I think I need to start with andimeantittosting’s Friends with Benefits with Tentacles.

It’s right there in the name. Yeah, it’s right there in the name. And it’s, again, it’s, it’s a shorter story. But it’s so well written and just entertainingly written sometimes with

tiamatv: It’s so cute. Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s adorable.

MalMuses: It’s adorable. And it’s, it’s, it’s sometimes hard to kind of sell like a fake, but people are like, oh no, I don’t think I’d be into the tentacle thing.

You’re like, no, but it’s so cute. Like, trust me, it’s adorable.

And it’s also very well written in the way that anytime you have any character in a story with kind of non-human biology in any way, it can sometimes be difficult to picture how they’re moving or keep track of what’s going on in a scene, especially if you’re having like, Something like, like sexy times with tentacles.

You’re like, okay, well where are they going? Like, what, what’s happening here? And this is so well done in this that it’s, it’s so easy to keep track of and, and it’s sweet and it’s funny and it’s like we’ve spoken about this one before and I think I said at the time that it’s like tentacle gateway, like gateway fic kind of.

Because I do think a lot of people who really aren’t even into that would still love this fic for just how adorable and sweet and dusty l it is. So, yeah. Explicit friends with benefits with tentacles. Go check it out. It’s adorable. Oh, and there is a podfic. I think so. There is a podfic for this by NerdyNerdenstein.

Ellenofoz: All right, I have to, we can’t let this trope go by without mentioning once again The Dean Winchester Beat Sheet by saltyfeathers. We’ve, we talked about this before but. It’s a longer one. It’s like 145,000 words. So it’d been a while since I reread it, but I did just reread it so I can talk about it in more detail this time.

And shout out to Alice/purpleskwid for reminding me all the time that this fic exists and that it’s great because she’s the number one fan of this fic. So this is friends with benefits, but in the way that Dean… so it’s a college age. The characters are in college and Dean is not gay. He is having a, a, a freak out because he finds himself attracted to Cas and he doesn’t understand why he, he can’t be gay.

And he, but they do sort of gradually get into this relationship. So he, like Cas knows they’re in a relationship and he knows that he’s attracted to, to Dean. But Dean just flat out denies everything for quite a long time in this fic. [1:20:00] But it’s not just that kind of miscommunication that goes on.

There is more to this story. And as you get further on, you start seeing like there’s something going on, there’s something strange happening, and by the time you get to the end, you’re like really invested in what’s happening in this story. It’s great. I only opened it like yesterday or the day before, intending to just skim through to remind myself of what it was about.

And I got sucked right in and I could not stop until I got to the end again. So all of salty feathers work is like this very engaging and it’s hilarious too, in, in a lot of it. It’s very funny. Yeah, just a great read. I mean, Dean does treat Cas pretty badly at points in this because he is like denying that they are in any kind of relationship and doesn’t want it to get out into public.

So he’s flat out like being mean to Cas all the time, which can get a little bit, you know, difficult to read at points. But you know, it does have a happy ending. Everything’s kind of resolved at the end and so it is resolved. So yeah, highly recommend that one.

MalMuses: And that’s quite a long one as well, isn’t it?

Ellenofoz: yeah, 145,000, but it doesn’t, it doesn’t feel like it’s that long. Like it, once you get into it and you’re reading it and you’re like, oh my God, I’ve already read like, you know, 12 out of 18 chapters or whatever it is. Like you get sucked in.

MalMuses: it’s, I feel like good fics never do you get something like you’re good fics never feel the lengths that they actually are. Yeah.

Ellenofoz: Oh, one thing I will mention about the Dean Winchester Beat Sheet before I finished up with that one is that if you don’t like reading… Well, it’s got some, some het scenes in it because Dean is like a, a serial, like sleeper with random women.

So he, there are quite a few scenes where he does sleep with other women. Not all of them are explicit, but some are. So if that bothers you, you know, maybe it’s not for you. But he does have quite a lot of great scenes with Cas as well, so don’t worry about that. Great fic though. Give it a go.

All right. Tia, have you got one to you’d like to recommend?

tiamatv: Yes. So this is actually, I was like, I know dothraki_shieldmaiden has written one and I just, for the life of me couldn’t find it. But it’s one million fires burning which is a, which is a… I guess it’s colleagues with benefits situation. They, they don’t start out as friends, let’s put it that way.

But then they, they end up friends and then they end up friends with benefits and then that goes exactly where you would expect it to. But it’s essentially that they’re, they’re both they’re both teachers at the same school. And Dean is assigned to co-coach the trivia team with Cas who is someone that he is not entirely fond of.

Oh. So I suppose it could be an enemies to friends, to friends with benefits to over a situation. Wow.

Ellenofoz: I love dothraki_shieldmaiden’s writing a lot, but I haven’t read that one.

tiamatv: Aw, me too. It is, it is long. I think it’s around, it’s 250 K. Oh, wow. So it is definitely a… it is a deep, deep dive, but it is worth it.

MalMuses: Okay. I’ll be reading that one. I think. I do have another quick recommendation, one that’s a bit of a classic and I think a lot of people have probably already read. And that is riptides by sharkfish. Very much a friends with benefits like fuck buddies thick. Sharkfish’s writing, has like a very distinguishable quality to it.

Like, you know, when you’re reading one of their fics like you just do.

tiamatv: Oh gosh, yes.

MalMuses: And this is a really good example of a fic of theirs. It’s, it’s a longer one. It’s 138,000 words, so you can really kind get into this one. There is a lot of BDSM in this one. It’s a very kind of like gentle dom, Cas thick.

There’s, there are some kind of mental health issues dealt with in it. Bipolar disorder, some stuff like that. A lot of recreational drug use I will say. But it’s just so, I don’t know, just warm and wonderful in places like it is the sappiest kinky fic I have ever read.

tiamatv: Like it is so kinky. Yeah, there are definitely kinks there I never thought I would enjoy. [1:25:00] And yet it is so beautifully, gently, sweetly done. I’m like, no. Yes, absolutely. Give me more of this.

MalMuses: Yes, just keep going. I’m happy. Like, yeah. Incredibly sappy. But yeah, there is a lot going on like it’s wall to wall kink in this fic but just also just so fluffy and lovely and they, they just so clearly love each other. So yeah. Wonderful friends with Benefit Fish, friends with benefits fic by sharkfish. There we go. I can talk, I promise.

Ellenofoz: Friends with fish benefits. Yes. Trying to think which of these are of other ones on the list. I’ve read, I’ve read Playing With Fire by anyrei and queerwerewolf.

Oh wow. And I, it’s been a while. It’s a long, it’s another long one and I’m pretty sure it’s like another one of our BDSM arrangements where, you know, they have a really hot time together and then catch feelings.

MalMuses: Definitely a really good fic. Everything that those two write I love. So yes, which they’re aware of.

I’ve been fangirling over them for years, so, but yeah, it’s, it’s really, really good. It’s one of those where the, the whole story will just pull you in and you’re kind of rooting for every character, but also just yelling at them to get their shit together.

tiamatv: Yeah. So

MalMuses: absolutely love that one. And I think, I could be wrong, I think there’s a sequel to that fic as well.

Ellenofoz: Oh yeah. Haven’t they just recently published that?

MalMuses: I think so. Lemme look that up before I go on record saying that there is, yes, there is.

tiamatv: It’s, yep. I believe there’s a, there are four stories in the series, apparently still is.

MalMuses: Okay. Yes, I was right. I don’t think I need that. So there is, so once you have dealt into 116,000 words of Dean and Cas in this particular universe, there’s plenty more.

Ellenofoz: Oh, when I say that it just got published. It was like at the beginning of 2021. So what is time? (laghing)

MalMuses: Yeah. Come on. Time no longer exists.

tiamatv: Oh, that’s such a mood though.

Ellenofoz: I think I might be thinking of their… didn’t they publish like a In the Mirror, Darkly sequel earlier this year?

MalMuses: Yes. Or they were just talking about it? I dunno.

Well, I have one that I will quickly recommend, which is not BDSM. So it does get, does get a little rough in parts, but it’s not, it’s not BDSM. There are some, some undertones I believe we will, we will phrase it as. And that is Caged Flowers by Wingless. So this is a Russian mafia mob boss Cas type thing, which I’m, I can, you know…

Ellenofoz: Oh yeah, I read that one too.

MalMuses: Definitely really enjoy sometimes. But yeah, this one’s really good. I really enjoyed this. It was written in a way that was just really engaging. It was one of those fits where I started reading it and just kind of binged it and read the whole thing, even though it was 48,000 words.

And so really enjoyed it. Engagingly written. I will say there is a, a, a bit of an age difference between them in this fic ’cause I know that’s a big kind of flag for some people. So I will say that, that that does exist in this fic. Otherwise there is a, there’s a lot of smut in this. It’s very hot.

Ellenofoz: Yeah. And also early on in this one, it’s like a, it’s almost dubious consent. Like he… it is told from both points of view, but you know, Dean is on board with it, but I think maybe each of them isn’t sure that the other one is, but they just go along with it. So, you know, it’s that kind of dub con kind of element.

But they are, they are both into it. Even if they don’t explicitly say, it turns out to be surprisingly sweet.

MalMuses: I would say there’s a lot of, like, with any, any prison story, obviously, like, don’t read it if you are upset reading about anything about people being incarcerated and the reasons why they might be there and that kind of stuff.

Yeah, that this is very much a, an entire prison au but I, I felt that like the further you got through it, like the sappier it got?

Ellenofoz: yes. Yeah.

MalMuses: So, so, you know, don’t let that put you off unless it’s something that’s like a hard no for you, in which case obviously do not read this one look after yourself.

But generally, like by the time you got to the end, you almost kind of forget that, like, oh, they’re criminals, who cares? They, they love each other.

Ellenofoz: Yeah. Yeah. Cas starts out being this like really scary kind of Russian hard man where he doesn’t wanna give anything away and then by the end he’s like, you know, cuddling Dean and he’s just really sweet at the end.

tiamatv: So it’s canon basically. It’s a big topic.

Ellenofoz: [1:30:00] Yeah. Basically!

tiamatv: I had not read this one, so I’m looking forward to it. It is now on my marked for later.

MalMuses: Yeah, it’s, it’s a fun story. Like, that’s my, my main takeaway. It was just, it was just a really fun read.

Ellenofoz: Any others that we wanna mention?

MalMuses: yes, I do have another one that is also a very fun read because it’s a rock band au!

So this is Mixtape for My Teenage Crush by followyourenergy. And this is like a kinda like secret crush to friends with benefits to eventually they get the crap together kind of story where they are both rock stars. There’s definitely, you know, some. Some parts of the plot that are, that are brought up specifically because they are rock stars and they are, you know, writing songs and, and that kind of stuff.

So the entire premise is that Cas had a crush so bad that he had to write a song about it and name his entire band after it. So yeah, it’s…

Ellenofoz: So he’s already in pretty deep right from the start?

MalMuses: Yeah. Like right from the beginning. Like he was, he was right. He was right in there.

tiamatv: Poor Cas. It’s such a trial to know how you feel.

MalMuses: Yeah. I don’t know how much to say about the rest of this one. ’cause there’s definitely some, some stuff that comes up. There is a, there is a plot going on here. It’s not just Dean and Cas and they’re never ending crush on each other. There’s definitely some, some, some stuff here, like some angst that happens, but it does have a happy ending.

It’s also quite funny in parts and very, very fluffy. But that, there’s definitely, definitely some angst to get through with this one. But if you like something a bit fun and fresh and that does end up, despite being we’re friends with benefits fic, it’s kind of quite a slow burn to get to where you wanna get to with this one.

I think there are some flashbacks to high school, if I remember correctly. If anyone wants to correct me on that, that’s fine. It’s been a little while since I read this one. But yeah, who, who doesn’t like reading like a completely fun au sometimes and like a rock star au is always gonna get me as a, as a fun one.

And yeah, you kind of want to yell at them sometimes, especially as it’s like a alternating pov fic that you kind of know what each of them is thinking at both times. And so it’s just like, Hey, this is where I want to bang their heads together.

tiamatv: You know? I just realized, does Satin and Sawdust count as friends to friends with benefits?

MalMuses: Oh yeah. I guess it would probably. Yeah. And we’ve actually covered that one on the podcast,

tiamatv: I’m sure. So how could one not?

MalMuses: Yeah, so I think we actually had her on to talk about that one with us, so Yeah, we should definitely mention that one and we can link people

Ellenofoz: God, that was a long time ago.

MalMuses: you know, you realize we’ve been doing this for over two years.

Ellenofoz: I know! (laughs) I love that fic so much.

MalMuses: Yeah, so it’s, yeah, Let’s mention sat in the

tiamatv: it is.

MalMuses: I,

Ellenofoz: oh, it’s like the OG you know, panty kink fic. A handyman who wears panties. Yes.

tiamatv: Oh, and is so completely unashamed of it and like, loves everything that he loves. And yeah, I love Dean in that, in this story so much because he’s just, he’s so self-aware and he’s so, I mean, in a lot of ways he’s very different from the canon version of Dean, but you can see how Dean could have been this like, beautiful creature.

And poor Cas is a disaster. I guess one of them has to be. But once again, the complete lack of appropriate communication where one of them definitely thinks, definitely thinks and is emotionally getting a lot more out of the relationship than the other one thinks they’re getting. So yes, once again, the, once again the lack of communication and the idiots to lovers.

And yet somehow they still completely deserve each other.

It’s, I mean, it’s such a, it’s such a classic that I think it, it, some of its tones flavor many of the other Dean panty kink stories in the fandom that you think of it and you’re like, was that from Satin and Sawdust or was it from something else? Or did that get it from…? It’s, it’s so hard to tell.

It’s just so iconic.

Ellenofoz: Yes. Well, you can find links to all of those fics that we’ve talked about on our website: [1:35:00] And if you have any friends with benefits fics that you’d like to recommend to us that we haven’t mentioned we can add them to the list as well. You can get in touch with us.

On socials, under Mixtape Book Club, including Tumblr, Twitter, Instagram, all those good places. We haven’t yet made like a, a Threads or any of the new, new-ish things. Sorry, I can’t, I can’t call it Twitter anymore. It’s not called that anymore.

MalMuses: Yes, it’s, it’s not Twitter now, the app formerly known as Twitter,

Ellenofoz: I refuse to call it X. That’s just…

MalMuses: it’s so dumb.

Ellenofoz: it’s, I don’t, I don’t even know how to describe it. Anyway, you can also email us contact at mixed tape book Or you can chat to us on the Profound Bond discord server, or you can join our ko-fi linked Discord server. And you can get into that by going to tape book club if you’d like to support us.

And thank you to all those people who do. We really appreciate it.

What are we gonna say about the next episode? We don’t know what it is yet because we’re going to be together! (laughs)

MalMuses: Yes. Exciting. So I guess we will just do a little reminder that we will be at the upcoming convention in Charlotte. It’s escaping me the date of the convention.

Ellenofoz: 18th to the 20th of August.

MalMuses: 18th to the 20th of August. There we go. Thank you. But yes, please do say hello. Keep an eye on our social media for any little fun things that we may be doing while we’re there. And we will be back to, back to normal for a normal episode a couple of weeks after that, I imagine.

Ellenofoz: Yeah. Thank you so much, Tia, for coming to talk to us today. It’s been lovely.

tiamatv: Thank you for having me. This was, this was such an honor to meet you too.

Ellenofoz: Oh, the honor is ours Thank you.

MalMuses: Yes. Thank you so much for coming to talk to us and for letting me embarrass myself vocally for once instead of just with a keyboard.

tiamatv: You have absolutely made, made my month.

Ellenofoz: Have you got any fics that are coming up soon that you wanna give a shout out to? or what are you working on?

tiamatv: No, I will… I am, I have a fic posting next week for the, for the Dadstiel Bang. Spoiler alert, it has tentacles.

It, it literally has tentacles, in fact; Cas is an undersea creature. Yes. And yes. And then I have a I have a. The smut bang or the bang bang posting on September 11th, so in about a month I have that posting which is a billiards AU.

MalMuses: Oh wow. Awesome. Okay. Looking forward to all of these.

Ellenofoz: I love how fanfic can just be any old thing, like, you know, any, anything you can think of. There’s an au of it, I’m sure.

MalMuses: Yeah. You say it, it’s out there.

tiamatv: We’re so blessed in our fandom. It is. I, I have friends who belong to much smaller fandoms and they are quite jealous of just how lucky we are.

MalMuses: Yeah. None of my other ships have even remotely the amount of content that we have. So,

Ellenofoz: well, a hundred thousand and and counting.

MalMuses: Yes. But there are other ships I have where I have to just write my own content just for myself. ’cause I’m like, well, there’s no one out here. It’s just me. So very grateful for every single one of those. However many fics we’re at these days, ’cause we have posted a lot since we passed that milestone.

Ellenofoz: All right, Well thank you everyone for listening and we’ll talk to you or see you soon.

MalMuses: And as always, remember that the story isn’t over until we say it is.

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